1 On Aug 28, 04:51 pm, Prarie Pup wrote:

The purpose of the state hatcheries was to compensate the losses to the fishery that the dams brought about. The fish belong to the people, not those punkass college boys running the ODFW and other regulatory agencies.

3 On Aug 28, 08:29 pm, Sean wrote:

One might add over fishing but one might be completely wrong to do so, too. Go prarie pup!

Walter – They are worthless endeavors. If we are going to talk science, let’s bring in the scientists the BPA hired and fired for their own projects!

5 On Aug 29, 05:51 am, The Guy Who Writes This wrote:

Hatchery fish are inferior to wild fish. In a hatchery all the natural selection and culling is removed and you just have millions of eggs from good and inferior fish being carpet bombed with possibly inferior sperm to create inferior fish. Good genetics mixed with bad genetics. The hatchery system is to aqua culture what GMO is to farming.

7 On Aug 29, 06:03 pm, The Guy Who Writes This wrote:

I’ll agree to that, Walt. The protection that is given does alter the survival of the fittest. It is the skill that is learned not to be eaten in the wild which produces superior, smarter, stronger fish. Inferior and sometimes the unlucky fish get taken. The fishing industry has screwed the pooch for so long, but instead of looking for ways to keep the wild stock health we just order more pooches for screwing.

9 On Aug 30, 10:14 am, Pierce wrote:

Hatchery fish don’t know how to act in the wild. They are kept in captivity in large schools and fed pellets at regular intervals. Instead of using their energy learning how to forage and survive in a beautiful little section of stream, they become assholes, aggressive toward one another. Half the time they can’t tell a turd from a food pellet. There is no substitute for natural habitat. It sure would be nice if we could tear out those damn dams on the Snake river. The power they generate is negligible and they mainly only benefit a dozen or so wheat farmers. If they were gone hundreds of miles of prime upriver habitat would be instantly available for the greatest salmon the world has ever known. The Red fish lake sockeye. Actually there is growing support for this idea around Lewiston & Clarkston as they are experiencing silting problems that will eventually cause flooding of some of their prime real estate. Dam removal would fix this problem too.

11 On Sep 4, 11:02 pm, Peter Huhtala wrote:

I’ve heard that surface-fed hatchery smolts will rise to the surface when it rains, thinking (?) that they’re being fed. This behavior is not only handy for the terns and cormorants, it also helps naturally select fitter salmon.

In fairness, there are “conservation” hatcheries that work with native runs and attempt to mimic natural conditions and abundance. I can appreciate the theory, but I don’t know much more.

And then there’s the local net pen program, that takes smolts for the brief period when they imprint the scent of their home stream and make that imprint Youngs Bay, or Lois Embayment, or Blind Slough. Good returns and it’s way mmore cost effective than the hatcheries. Still there remain arguments that this distorts the ecosystem. Personally I have difficulty arguing against using this technique to provide opportunities for fishermen that avoid to a great extent the endangered fish, while returning a few million bucks to the local economy.

Those four lower Snake dams must go. Yes the power needs to be replaced, but the upside for salmon and the economy (regionally and even on the Snake, where recreational businesses should thrive once the dams are breached) is worth the logistical challenge.

13 On Sep 6, 07:59 pm, Pierce wrote:

OK lets wait and see what happens, looks really good to me though. Working with Mother Nature as opposed to trying to shove something down her throat. Nice to see the public and private outfits collaborating on this type of project. I bet it will not only restore some prime habitat but some faith in humanity too.

15 On Sep 8, 03:42 pm, Prarie Pup wrote:

Want to save Columbia River Salmon from pinipeds?

Let the Gillnetters do their thing-they know what to do.

East End mooring basin would be a good place to start.

17 On Sep 9, 09:11 am, THartill wrote:

MMMmmmmm I can taste it now…smoked Sea Lion…no wait smoked Sea Lion Lox on a bagel with cream cheese….yummy!

Henry

If dams are not the number one killer of fish, then what caused the huge decline in the early 30’s when the first dam went in?

19 On Sep 9, 02:52 pm, Pierce wrote:

Sure there are many facets to salmon survival. Habitat, ocean conditions and predators all factors. For thousands of years however salmon have magicly worked their way back into habitat they were cut off from for 50 years or longer back during the Missoula floods 14,000 years ago. Ice dams formed and broke about 40 times lasting approx 55 years each over a 2,000 year period. Those up river June hogs sometimes weighed in weighed in at over 80#.

21 On Sep 13, 02:58 pm, Henry Balensifer wrote:

Well I wouldn’t mind a pair of mukluk (or however it is spelled) sealskin boots (Im sure they’d be a surefire hit with teenage kids looking for a fancier alternative to those interesting uggs boots everyone seems to be wearing.)

As for dams- I agree- in the early years where dams had little to no provisions (and many still don’t) for salmon passage that those dams created huge declines in salmon populations. I was not trying to defend dams in regards to killing upriver salmon- I believe the dam argument is true for the most part in regards to salmon stocks above Bonneville, however- if you read my earlier comment you would have noticed I was pointing my argument to the fallacy of the thought that dams are somehow responsible for lower river casualties- its just ludicrous.

“Yes I agree dams should be removed on the Snake and upper Columbia and that they are probably one of the largest killers of salmon on the upper portions of the river”—- “But I do not believe that destroying the dams is really going to make a difference for anything below Bonneville”

I hope that clarifies the intent of my comment.

23 On Sep 13, 04:23 pm, THartill wrote:

Have to disagree with “ludicrous”.

To add on to what Pierce said….

Before the dams there were a much higher number of fish in the river with predators all after a little piece of the pie (Fishermen, Sea Lions, Birds..etc etc) Now that most of the river is cut off, the number of total fish are near 10% of pre-dam levels.

Now you have all the predators after the 10%...most of which are lower river fish. The predators are killing a larger amount of lower river fish than before…because that is about all that is left.

25 On Sep 20, 12:01 pm, Pierce wrote:

I know there are others far more knowledgable than me about this than me but the thing about Mt. St. Helens is that it blows every 150 years or so. Salmon have been around for over million years (as a species) Some spawning grounds get creamed following eruptions, but probably others open up at least with in a few years as they get sluiced back to good rocky bottoms via pumice and heavy run off. It is a well known fact that large woody debris in the stream is smolt heaven, lots of places to hide, more food sources. In any case however many times that Mt. has blown its top, thats how many times those runs have regenerated. I know there were some strong smelt runs on the Cowlitz during the 1980’s.

27 On Oct 1, 06:37 am, Bob Dillpickle wrote:

Well sir, I don’t believe we can pin the blame on Mother Nature for declining fish runs. She has stood by those smelt and salmon for eons. When she shakes things up with an eruption, earthquake, tree jam, or a flood all that stuff is mostly good for fish in the long run. A flood means a quicker trip to mother ocean for instance. If the ocean is teeming with shrimp, squid and anchovies those fish will do well. Sometimes due to el Nino, you get a lack of upwelling and the ocean becomes almost sterile. The oxygen depleted dead zones we have heard about recently along portions of the coast may well be due to global warming’s impact on ocean currents and upwelling just make it worse.